Episode 67: Making Your Brand Ubiquitous with Katie Hanna of Ka’Chava

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Transcript

Announcer:

Welcome to Nerd Marketing, an original podcast for e-commerce operators and marketers looking to level up Drew Sanocki and Michael Epstein will bring you actionable strategies from their decades of running eight- and nine- figure brands, along with interviews and insights from the leaders of some of the most successful brands in the world.

Drew Sanocki:

Hey everybody. Today on the Nerd Marketing podcast, we have Katie Hanna, who is the head of retention for Ka’Chava. Ka’Chava is a great DTC success story. Started about 10 years ago now. They are doing well into the nine figures in revenue all through DTC. They've never gone retail until now, which is really interesting. Also, we dig into her own career, how she came from fast fashion and healthcare into online marketing and even what they're doing as a CPG brand to prepare for Black Friday. So I hope you enjoy today's episode. Katie Hanna from Ka’Chava. I don't know if this was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I met Simon, founder of Ka’Chava. He had me do his AdWords for him. It was a new brand. I don't know what I charged him 500 bucks a month or something. It was nothing. And he's like, I don't know if we can afford that. And I was like, I don't know if I could charge any more than that. I was a new consultant and he was a new brand owner and we set up AdWords for him and we being me. How did Ka’Chava go from that? You guys are huge now, right? Yeah. What would you call your category?

Katie Hanna:

I think right now we're kind of in between, I guess we're toying with meal replacement, superfood blend, nutritional shake, and really that speaks to a lot of the work that our team has been doing this entire year in really getting clear on who we are and what category we're in and who our key audience is and what that message is, which I can get into. But to first answer your question, and so I was just saying earlier that I'm coming up on my one year anniversary, so I can't take too much credit for the great success over the last 10 years. We have a lot from Simon and a lot of heritage Ka’Chava employees who have been with him on the entire journey, who really set the foundation. But I would say first and foremost, Simon came up with a great product and it's one, whether you call it a shake, a superfood blend or a meal replacement, it boils down to a really easy all-in-one nutritional supplement.

You get 85 plus superfoods in one shake that only requires the addition of water. It's delicious. And I think all of us have tried all of the shakes on the market and some of them aren't so great and ours is phenomenal. And so I think he started with something that was really rooted in his mission to bring nutrition to the masses. He was in corporate America, burning himself out and wanted to clear up his own health and his own nutritional intake and really went back to nature to pull in what he knew to be those super foods and get them into this blend. And I think we also started ahead of a lot of the competition that's in the market today. So we got a nice little head start and really focused, to your point earlier, AdWords paid media. And now that we're about 10 years in, we're looking at how do we play the long game now and how do we develop and maintain those relationships with our existing customers? How do we get clearer on our opportunity customers to continue to grow and maintain that leadership position?

Drew Sanocki:

I want to make clear this epic growth from a startup to, I don't want to disclose your revenue numbers, but high eight figures, it's nine figures. It's huge. Did not happen on my watch. It wasn't my AdWords work. When you say AdWords, it was not Drew Sanocki at $500 a month. 

Katie Hanna:

And we sit here today. Thank you to Drew.

Drew Sanocki:

It happened after that and it was because of the product. I mean, I remember that was 10 years ago. I was living in the West Village in New York. I had a box of it on my countertop. There were no protein drinks out then There were no, you wouldn't walk into a store and come out with the pre-blended drinks. Nothing was on the market at that time. Has the product stayed the same? The product

Katie Hanna:

Has stayed the same. Wow. Yes. I should say, I'm sure there's been minor variations, but nothing significant. We are continually looking at how do we improve, how do we ensure the best quality ingredients, especially as we're looking at expanding out of the DTC space into retail, into, we just relaunched on Amazon, we're looking at international expansion. And so really more so that's outside of my realm of expertise. I'll lead that to our product team, but any minor tweak to the formulation have always been really to ensure that we're delivering the best product to our consumers.

Drew Sanocki:

Has it been a hundred percent DTC up until now?

Katie Hanna:

It has been. And so right now exploring retail is very new for us. And Amazon, from the best of my knowledge, I think we had a small stint a few years back and now we are just getting back up and running. So you can check out our newly launched Amazon store as well as cava.com. Saw it. It looked awesome. Yeah, that was an amazing team effort. I have to give a shout out to our dedicated Amazon team, our creative team. They did an amazing job and we've had just as I mentioned, really not only working on our messaging this year, our segmentation, but also exploring a change in brand identity as we're looking to expand outside of DTC, ensuring that we're popping out on the shelves and that we're easily recognizable, but still having that cohesive brand experience. And so our Amazon store was really a first pass at a new visual identity as well, so we're really excited about it. 

Michael Epstein:

You talked about starting to play the long game, right with positioning for customers and you're head of retention for K Java. How do you think about retention driving LTV, and what's your general philosophy that you brought into Ka’Chava around building that long-term relationship with the customers?

Katie Hanna:

That is a great question and for me, a bit of a confession to me, DTC is new for me. I mentioned I've been at Kava a little less than a year, and this is my first stint in DTC, but my whole career I have been a strategist. I worked in healthcare marketing, I worked in technology. I was in fast casual for a while, and my role, regardless of industry has always been in the strategist role in understanding the needs of my audience and whether that is my sales leader, my CMO or my customers. And so the philosophy that I've carried over from my experience is what are the problems that we're looking to solve? How do we solve them? And then how do we continue to educate and maintain that relationship? There are so many options on the market, so many similar options, and we have savvy consumers, and I think that if we're not looking at really creating authentic connections with our audience, then we're going to lose them.

And that goes beyond transactional discounts and one-off campaigns, but really providing not only a product that can be integrated into their day-to-day, but education and insights and thought leadership so that they feel that we're invested in them as people and not just invested in them as consumers who are going to drive up our revenue. So that's really what drives me and continually thinking of how do we make those connections. And something for me really, especially going into next year, is looking at how we can really create a community within our cava world and generating discussions and conversations and being a hub, if you will, where our subscribers, our customers can come back and understand not only what Ka’Chava can do for them in their day to day, but generally how it can be just a piece or a tool in their toolbox to holistic health. And I think that's something that, it certainly drives me, it's been a pillar of my own life and my colleagues as well. One of the reasons why we're so passionate about the brand and the work that we do.

Drew Sanocki:

If you look back on the last couple of years, what would you say were the top things that worked to really drive sort of a top of funnel awareness for the brand?

Katie Hanna:

I would say the number one thing is our investment in paid media. We really had a high percentage of budget that went into performance marketing. We've joked, and when I first started and I was telling friends and former colleagues about my new job, I said, just say ka Java into your phone and you immediately will get served ads every day for the rest of your life. And it's true, say Ka’Chava into your phone. So I think that really propelled us across the paid channels. Now what we are doing is really looking to diversify our mix so that we're not as beholden to some of these oversaturated mediums like Facebook, of course, we're on Instagram, we're expanding into TikTok and paid media will always be a part of our strategy, but we have really worked hard to diversify that mix this year. And I mentioned as far as honing in on our ideal customers and segmentation, getting clear on the different value propositions for those audiences, that has then helped us to explore additional top of funnel brand partnerships, working with the right influencers who are in the spaces that we need to be in order to speak to those really targeted opportunity segments for us.

So looking for that expansion, I want to give a shout out to my brand colleagues, Mayra and Sarah. They have really done a phenomenal job in expanding into some of these partnerships from a brand and top of funnel perspective. And we really had a great opportunity this year to partner with an expert in the mindfulness and wellness space, Courtney Knowles. And that partnership has really allowed us to reach a whole new audience through his own channels, but also to help us expand from just a nutritional product to speaking about that holistic wellness and integrating it into that type of lifestyle. So we've not only been able to leverage his channels, but create more content than we have at least in the past year and in a way that is authentic and again, community building. So that's been just a wonderful addition to our mix and we're looking to do a lot more of that going into next year. You

Michael Epstein:

Talked about some folks on the brand. A lot of brands have questions about what is the marketing org or department look like as you start to hit scale, because it starts probably one person doing some of everything and then maybe you get a paid media manager or you hire a couple agencies as you continue to grow, but as you hit the scale that cavas at, if you're able to share what are the team roles and responsibilities look like, how do you divide things up? You're head of retention again, as you hit scale, you start to see acquisition and retention sort of broken out into their own teams versus one person doing everything. What does it look like at Ka’Chava?

Katie Hanna:

You are spot on, and I'll be honest, it's ever changing. We are still working through that. A year ago at this time, we did not have these teams baked out. So me joining the team in November, it was the first time they had a director of retention. And to be quite honest with you, my title continues to move from director of retention to director of Lifecycle because we're still building and we're still scaling and recognizing that when I'm working in the CRM and we're figuring out our organic channels and that messaging, we have to speak full funnel. And so in growing our team this year, we hired on our first brand director, our first partnership director, our first director of retention. These are all brand new teams. We also have a VP of e-comm that is brand new, and then my partner, my director of MarTech.

So we're actively figuring this out. So if that gives any hope to other organizations out there, it's not set in stone. But what we have found first and foremost that yes, we need individuals who have oversight over the different stages of the customer journey, but we all need to be integrated and we all need to be working together. So I mentioned Sarah and Myra who are on our brand and partnership team, Leon, who's my MarTech director. We are always speaking and collaborating every single day and understanding what is our primary goal, who plays what piece in this program or this campaign and how do we pull it together? And then of course, looking to next year and beyond, we know that in order to continue with the success and to continue to scale, we already have plans on how we need to grow our team and grow our partnerships in order to execute on everything that we have in the works, which by the way, shout out to you and your team because post pilot has been such an essential extension to our team in order to achieve the programs that we're getting into market.

It's been so much help and we couldn't do it without your team, so thank you.

Michael Epstein:

Our pleasure. That's good to hear. You mentioned how you came from DTC. What were the things that directly translated from outside the industry and what were the big eye opening or crazy things that you weren't expecting when you started moving into DTC?

Katie Hanna:

Well, so direct translation from a non-marketing perspective. So I have experience in healthcare marketing. I worked at Cleveland Clinic for eight years in marketing. I started there as an intern from Cleveland Clinic. I took a sharp turn and I was a field marketer for Chipotle, and they seemed very different. I mean, most people thought I was leaving to go roll burritos, which by the way is not an easy job. But really the alignment there was, and at the time I'm a working mom. My kids were really young at the time, and so health and wellness and sustainability and our food and how we're nourishing ourselves was and continues to be really important to me. And so that was kind of the red thread from healthcare into fast casual marketing. Then I had a stint in technology for five years at a company called Highland, and now I'm here.

And so just from alignment with my own personal values and mission and how I try to live my life, that's kind of the path there from a marketing standpoint. I mentioned this earlier, but being someone who has a knack for hearing and understanding what the problem is or the challenge and how to fix it. And so I think I could step into this role and make an assessment, whether it was at our messaging in general or our email programs that we were running and provide some immediate actionable items. And I think that at the very least, helped just instill some trust in my ability and was very transferable from my past 15 to 17 years in marketing. I am not the behind the scenes tech person. So that has been a challenge for me, and I am grateful every day that I have amazing partners here.

So I mentioned Leon, who is our director of MarTech, and then Oliver is our VP of E-commerce, and they are my right and my left hand. And so I come up with the idea, the strategy, this is what we want to do, this is who we want to talk to. And then I turn to them and I say, how do we do this in the best possible way? And so they've been great. Something that I was talking with Leon this morning and we were talking about different automated flows that we were setting up, and he made a comment that I thought was just so important in that whatever we do on our end, we need to make it as and as easy as possible for our audience. And if that means that it's more complex, it takes more time and it's more difficult for us to do, that's okay because the end goal for us is our relationship with our customers. And that really speaks to how we're thinking every day as to not only the message that we're putting in the market, but the experiences that we're hoping to establish for our customers long term.

Michael Epstein:

I think you're so right. We talk about that a lot here too. There's so much competition for attention and everyone's got so much else going on, whether it's B2B or whether it's DTC, any minimal point of friction you're creating for your audience creates such an increased likelihood that they just disengage or stop paying attention. It goes for marketing directly to your consumer audience as well.

Katie Hanna:

Yeah. Well, I always think, I mean, we're all consumers and we're all sitting, I mean, at least I am. I'm sitting on the couch at night and I'm clicking on every Instagram ad, and I don't think we even realize the expectations that we have and online experiences until we have a bad experience, until we can't click something that we expect to click or we can't have a discount code automatically uploaded. And it's at that moment when I realize that should have been easier for me. Now I'm annoyed, let's move on. And so that's something that, especially in partnership with Leon, always thinking of what is the expectation of our customers and how do we exceed it?

Michael Epstein:

So we've got Black Friday coming up,

Katie Hanna:

We do.

Michael Epstein:

How are you thinking about holding on to all of the new customers that you expect to acquire? I know you're running a Black Friday promotion, so expectation of a bunch of new folks trying Ka’Chava. How do you think about ensuring that those folks stick around and is that any different from how you think about retention LTV? Normally

Katie Hanna:

Yes and no. A few things that we've been setting up this year to help prepare us, which really falls in line with how we think about LTB has been really setting a strong foundation. So even going back several months ago and when I was coming on board, we were looking at, I'm getting into retention world and CRM world, but looking at our automated email flows and the regular communication that goes out and ensuring that it's up to date and our messaging is aligned, we had communication that hadn't been updated in several years. So we've been working with another partner just to clean all of that up so that we're really clear on how we're coming across to our audience from the moment they enter our email list. We know what communication they have, what discounts are coming their way or what have you. So that has really been our primary focus from a retention side this year, resetting the foundation from a Black Friday, cyber Monday offer without revealing what the offer is, we have our non subscribing customers, we have active subscribers, and then of course anyone who has churned.

And so really wanting to provide different options for different types of customers and not alienate one group over the other. So what you'll see from us, depending on if you are a brand new prospect, you've never purchased Ka’Chava, you've tried us a few times, or you have a subscription, there is a Black Friday offer for everyone, which is really exciting and it's the first time that we've done this. Beyond that, we are very focused on the longevity of, especially our subscription offers. We talk about savvy consumers, and I am guilty of this. I know you can say, oh, I can subscribe and I'll get X percent off and then come next month, I'll just set the reminder on my calendar and cancel. We have really thought through an offer that we hope is enticing enough for people to stick around and to give us a try beyond that one month.

So again, something that we haven't done before, it is a test for us, but we're really excited to see the long-term results of that. And then from the acquisition side, again, working with your team, something new for us is leveraging direct mail and getting the offers right into the homes of our audience. And not only the offer, but as you all know, we are hoping to reach out to prospects and get them into our email list. So not only do they get the offer, but they'll get early access to it. So that is new to our mix as well. So really new learnings. It's an offer we've never had before and we're really excited to see how it goes.

Drew Sanocki:

Well, Katie, it was great to see you, and it was really interesting to hear how Ka’Chave grown from this tactical, let's set up ad words for the first time all the way to now we're you're really building a brand and you're doing all the things that a company of your size should do and build a brand is sort of what you do to take it even bigger at this point. So thanks for sharing it with us and best of luck over the holidays.

Katie Hanna:

Thank you so much. 

Michael Epstein:

Thank you.

Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Nerd Marketing. Don't forget to check out all of the other great episodes, some of which include interviews with e-commerce Marketing Masters, working with Mr. Beast and Joe Rogan, plus Drew and Michael's experiences in private equity, advice from VC firms and what they look for in investments and so much more like share, subscribe, and tune in every week for a new episode.